Append more visible pre-reqs info to the start of the book

[matt@…]

Hi,

I'd like to request a clear alert at the start of the book stating the pre-reqs for building LFS, such as basic unix system knowledge, the tldp docs etc that are mentioned in the book, but most new users tend to be skipping that and are having really simple support issues such as "how do I move a directory" "how do I copy something".

I think this needs to be more of a warning to cut down on time wasting spoon feeding within the mail lists/irc channels so that it is a clear warning that you require basic ability on a unix based system before you even start.

[chris@…]

You mean something like this...?

"Do not consider trying LFS if you do not know how to do any of these tasks on the command line:

1. Copy a file or directory
2. Move a file or directory
3. View a directory listing
4. Change directories

If you go to the chat room and ask how to do any of these tasks, don't be surprised if you are either completely ignored or kicked immediately."

Well, that's a bit harsh, but that's the basic idea. Though, many people tend to ignore stuff like that completely if there isn't some serious dire warning attached to it, so some overstatement may not be a bad idea...

[matt@…]

(In reply to comment #0)

Hi, I'd like to request a clear alert at the start of the book stating the pre-

reqs

for building LFS, such as basic unix system knowledge, the tldp docs etc that are mentioned in the book, but most new users tend to be skipping that and

are

having really simple support issues such as "how do I move a directory" "how

do

I copy something". I think this needs to be more of a warning to cut down on time wasting spoon feeding within the mail lists/irc channels so that it is a clear warning that you require basic ability on a unix based system before you even start.

(In reply to comment #1)

You mean something like this...? "Do not consider trying LFS if you do not know how to do any of these tasks

on

the command line:

1. Copy a file or directory
2. Move a file or directory
3. View a directory listing
4. Change directories

If you go to the chat room and ask how to do any of these tasks, don't be surprised if you are either completely ignored or kicked immediately." Well, that's a bit harsh, but that's the basic idea. Though, many people

tend to

ignore stuff like that completely if there isn't some serious dire warning attached to it, so some overstatement may not be a bad idea...

It sounds stupid, but yes. Something like that thats pretty much spelt out pretty clear instead of hidden on a page that the new users who believe they know it all will ignore.

this way (and this is not meant as harsh as it sounds) there is a defense from this sort of questioning on the mail lists and channel

eg: The book lays out the minimum requirements - you don't meet them, sorry support is not available.

The same way other software/OS products have minimum spec/kit/software deps because of the way this OS is build, I'd think a minimum user dependency would be very benifical.

(In reply to comment #1)

You mean something like this...? "Do not consider trying LFS if you do not know how to do any of these tasks

on

the command line:

1. Copy a file or directory
2. Move a file or directory
3. View a directory listing
4. Change directories

If you go to the chat room and ask how to do any of these tasks, don't be surprised if you are either completely ignored or kicked immediately." Well, that's a bit harsh, but that's the basic idea. Though, many people

tend to

ignore stuff like that completely if there isn't some serious dire warning attached to it, so some overstatement may not be a bad idea...

[steve.crosby@…]

sample text:

Building an LFS system is not a simple task. It requires a certain level of existing knowledge of Unix system administration in order to resolve problems, and correctly execute the commands listed.

In particular, you should already have the ability copy or move files and directories, list directory and file contents, and change the current directory.

Because the LFS book assumes *at least* this basic level of skill, the available LFS support forums won't be able to provide you with much assistance -

you will find that your questions regarding such basic knowledge will likely

go unanswered, or you will simply be referred to the LFS essential pre-reading list.

[Matthew Burgess]

Sample text looks good Steve, thanks. Matt, I assume you wanted this stuff to be used to expand what's currently in the pre-req's section (preface section 3)?

[matt@…]

(In reply to comment #4)

Sample text looks good Steve, thanks. Matt, I assume you wanted this stuff

to

be used to expand what's currently in the pre-req's section (preface section

3)?

Yes please, I think this would help make a few things "crystal" clear and hopeful pre-empt some of the more regular and lack of understanding questions

[chris@…]

Additional minor comment...I think the prerequisites should also specify that users should be able to copy files, move file, etc. *from the command line*. I've seen several people who seem to think that being able to use Konqueror is enough...that's why my first comment on this bug mentioned the command line.

[Matthew Burgess]

Good point, Chris. Apologies for missing your original comment on this one. I'd rather not use a vertical list for layout, simply for aesthetic reasons (we'd end up with a single sentence paragraph following the list). So, I can think of the following wordings to make the command line knowledge explicit:

"In particular, as an absolute minimum, the reader should already have the ability to use the command line (shell) to copy or move files and directories, list directory and file contents, and change the current directory."

"In particular, as an absolute minimum, the reader should already have the ability to use the command line (shell) to perform the following operations: copy or move files and directories; list directory and file contents; and change the current directory."

I don't know if one is particularly more readable or grammatically correct than the other, so your input is more than welcome.

[chris@…]

(In reply to comment #7)

Good point, Chris. Apologies for missing your original comment on this one. I'd rather not use a vertical list for layout, simply for aesthetic reasons

I know, my original comment was just to give a general idea anyway rather than specific wording to use.

(we'd end up with a single sentence paragraph following the list). So, I can think of the following wordings to make the command line knowledge explicit:

"In particular, as an absolute minimum, the reader should already have the ability to use the command line (shell) to copy or move files and directories, list directory and file contents, and change the current directory."

"In particular, as an absolute minimum, the reader should already have the ability to use the command line (shell) to perform the following operations: copy or move files and directories; list directory and file contents; and change the current directory."

I don't know if one is particularly more readable or grammatically correct than the other, so your input is more than welcome.

I don't think either one is grammatically "better" than the other, but I personally prefer the first one since I generally don't like statements like "do the following:" unless they're followed by some kind of numbered list. I tend to think that if a list is short enough just to make a single sentence out of it then tacking on "do the following:" is extraneous. Maybe that's just me... :)